Thursday, August 31, 2006

This Is For Real...

Just riding a wave of $UCCE$$ ?
Just in case anybody missed out, in the wake of the mega-seller "Your Best Life Now" book there is a board game to now compliment the book. This coming from a man whose message I watched on TBN this past sunday (I like to get fired up about bad teaching TBN keeps me on the edge...) Mr.Osteens entire message before his 30,000 plus congregation was about dieting. The entire Sunday message not one reference to God or Jesus throughout the whole thing...not a single Bible verse was quoted. Well, at the end Mr.Osteen did invite people to recite a prayer to accept Jesus into their hearts...but who is Jesus and why do I need to accept Him into my heart? If I knew nothing about Christianity and tuned into Mr.Osteen's message on sunday I would still know nothing, nothing salvific at least. The only thing I would know is that Christians (whatever that is) should diet. (sigh)



A board Game based on a psychologized self esteem book, do I really need to rant about this...

10 comments:

natamllc said...

Bobby

I send an email prayer as a Priest after the Order of the Priesthood of Melchizedek to a group of folks in Fort Worth, Texas daily and sometimes more than once a day.

Here's the prayer:

I would pray that this would shake up some souls to rise up and reign in Life through Jesus Christ our Lord by His Power and Authority.

the prayer:

LORD GOD ALMIGHTY
LET THINGS BECOME CLEAR
NATIONS DO NOT MOVE YOU ANYMORE
YOU WERE MOVED WHEN CHRIST CAME AND BECAME SO THAT WE CAN COME AND BECOME
MOVE UPON US LORD
MOVE UPON US

That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs and partakers of his body and of the promise which is given through him by the gospel.

NOW IT IS OUR TIME TO COME AND BECOME
NOW IT SHOULD NOT BE SAID WE CAME AND BECAME
FELLOW HEIRS, PARTAKES OF THE HIS BODY AND OF THE PROMISE
AND THEN LEFT FOR GLORY LAND

LET US HASTEN HIS COMING TO THE GLORY OF GOD OUR HEAVENLY FATHER IN JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN
10 To the intent that through the church the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the angels and powers which are in heaven,
11 Which is the wisdom he prepared in ages past and has carried out in Jesus Christ our Lord;
12 In whom we have freedom of access with confidence in his faith.


IT IS OUR TIME TO MAKE IT KNOWN
IT IS OUR GENERATIONS AMONG THE NATIONS
IT IS OUR JUSTIFICATION TO LIFE TO COME AND BECOME THE CHURCH AND TO EXPRESS THE MANIFOLD WISDOM OF GOD TO ANGELS AND POWERS WHICH ARE IN THE CREATED HEAVENS

THIS WISDOM WAS PREPARED ALREADY AS OUR SALVATION WAS
THIS WISDOM WAS PREPARED ALREADY AS OUR REDEMPTION WAS

WHAT WAS ALREADY NEED ONLY BECOME NOW WHAT NOW IS

THE LAND OF PROMISE IS HIS
AND GIVEN TO HIS SEED
WE THAT HAVE RECEIVED THE BAPTISMS AND PARTAKE OF HIS BODY AND BLOOD ARE HIS BODY IN THE WORLD TODAY
THIS CHURCH DESIGNATED AS THE MANIFESTERS OF THIS MANIFOLD WISDOM OF GOD NOW TO BE MADE KNOWN

WE PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM
WE CALL FOR FIRE AND FLAME AMONG THE NATIONS
WE CALL FOR WATER AND RAIN AMONG THE NATIONS

SHAKE THE HEAVENS AND EARTH
SHAKE ALL THE NATIONS

STRIKE SATAN AND HIS ANGELS WHERE THEY ARE
REMOVING THEM FROM THEIR PLACE AND CASTING THEM DOWN TO THE EARTH TO BE TRAMBLED UNDERFOOT BY THE FEET OF JESUS

RELEASE SALVATION
RELEASE STRENGTH
RELEASE THE KINGDOM OF GOD
RELEASE THE POWER OF HIS CHRIST

BY THE BLOOD OF THE CROSS
MAKE PEACE

SEND US TO THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD DRAWING OUT OF THE NORTH, THE SOUTH, THE EAST AND THE WEST SOULS OF MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN SEPARATING THEM FROM DEATH AND CONJOINING THEM TO LIFE THROUGH THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM

CONJOINING THEM TO JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR, SHEPHERD AND KING THROUGH THE ABUNDANCE OF GRACE AND THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS SO THEY TOO MAY RISE UP AND REIGN IN LIFE THROUGH THE CROSS OF JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD

14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 For whom all fatherhood in heaven and in earth is named,
16 To grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit,
17 That Christ may dwell in your inner man by faith, and in your hearts by love, strengthening your understanding and your foundation,
18 So that you may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the height and depth and length and breadth,
19 And to know the love of Christ which surpasses all knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fulness of God.

AMEN

Richard Dawkins said...

Austerity would be more of a rallying, recruitment drive for theists. Gameshows tend to elicit contempt even among the unwashed.

Bob said...

Michael:
Right on, you know you can make your own blog and put stuff like that on there...not that I am not interested in reading it, but that just didn't have anything to do with Joel Osteen's board game.

Mr. Dawkins:

Right? I mean its stuff like this board game that really makes American Christianity seem ridiculous to the unbelievers.

natamllc said...

I humbly submitted the prayer to the blog because of your post about Osteen's board game.

"I thought", hmmmmm, I would post onto your blog the prayer offering a "contrast" to the LIFE OSTEEN OFFERS that you offer us readers to consider and ponder, those of us reading posts in this blog.

Maybe I overstepped my authority and ensenuated upon yours?

Forgive me.

Thanks for making it clear in any event though and not hiding your thoughts and feelings.

Mr. Osteen, Mr. Warren, or anyone one of us, if you take a snapshot of our words, could come to conclude that we are living out Christian error according to what we believe Christian error is.

Even Jesus' Words can be and have been taken out of context because some were SPIRITUALIZING His civil realm words He spoke and taking His CIVILIAN WORDS out of context as being more spiritual than scientific going beyond what the laws of nature allow and then perverting His teachings and parables casting them in a confusing light.

Christ is the only HUMAN that came from Glory, that Eternal unchanging reality. Things change there continually.

For instance, Satan and his host of following fallen angels were cast from there Eternal place in "Heaven".

Those not cast from there then "witnessed" the vanishing "event" of these "spiritual celebrities".

Jesus Himself while living the human life referred to that moment when He said He saw Satan fall like lightning from Heaven. When did Jesus see "the event" of Satan falling like lightning? Was it before He became a man or while a man and after He left His place in Glory?

Also, Jesus, the Eternal, Only Begotten Son of God, having left His "post", His Throne and His Glory, became the Only Begotten Son of God, appointed to die as the Son of Man. What did those remaining in Glory SEE when He left His Throne in Glory? It was empty perhaps?

Unless God our Heavenly Father revealed to the "host" of Heaven where Jesus went, they only saw Him sitting on the Throne in Glory and then they the event and then He too was gone, like Satan and his angels left Heaven. They would not know He became a man like us to die the death appointed to all mankind after the fall of Adam and Eve unless God revealed it to them.

It is best to realize that Satan and his angels have not been appointed once to die and then the judgment. They have been judged already to damnation and will in time after this creation is destroyed, these present created heavens and earth, find themselves cast into the Lake of Fire.

It is a matter of looking at it from a "natural" or "spiritual" perspective. It's a point of view. Joel Osteen is offering a point of view. Martin Luther offered a point of view that he certainly now knows was or wasn't correct.

For instance, consider what Paul the Apostle was saying in these verses, speaking from both understandings:

Phi 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Believing Paul to be correct, we live by a Faith that carries us there when we die too.

Paul is making "reference" to somewhere Jesus is currently and that we too have a "way of Life" there all the while LOOKING FOR HIM TO RETURN HERE again. How can anyone be LIVING in these two realms, the vile body realm and the glorious body realm?

That is a MYSTERY OF GOD that some are excluded from understanding because it is only by God's Sovereign Will that any human understand it.

To make that reference, he would have to have a "knowledge" imparted to him "supernatually" to "know" where it is he is now writing ABOUT and why he is referring to a vile body and a glorious body too.

When anyone reads this kind of verse it opens us up for interpreting what it means. If you apply the meaning with a carnal mind devoid of the Holy Ghost, it becomes confusing to those Spirit Filled Born Again Holy Ghost minds trying to understand your meaning.

Equally a similar effect is produced on the devoid mind seeing they do not have the Holy Ghost working through their carnal mind to understand the two realms of the Kingdom of God. There is the realm on earth. There is the realm in Heaven. Ghandi would be a historical figure who pointed out the confusion the Scriptures bring to a mind devoid of the Spirit. Just read his writing about the confusion the Bible brought him.

How would anyone know that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, that He returned to that Place of Glory having left Glory to live here on earth fully man? We understand that He was a man who was praying to Our Heavenly Father there who is sitting on a Throne in Eternal Glory next to His vacant Throne, praying as a man. When we read John 17 we realize He is not sitting there because He reveals to our heart by the power of the Holy Ghost that there is a place, eternal in nature, an Eternal Spiritual realm where He was praying too and then gives us the Wisdom to Understand the differences in the way He is praying and we don't find it confusing at all. We now understand the spiritual depth being written about in any verse, John 17 or Philippians 3:20 because God has done something to us.

We now know why others find it difficult to follow our "spiritual reasonings" with their carnal minds.

I am certain Joel Osteen is going to die and go to Heaven. His faith confessed tells me that.

What he is doing these days by writing these sorts of books and permitting board games to be produced based on the reasonings of the book is suspect. Neither the book nor his board game in my estimation state succinctly the message of the Gospel of the Kingdom, a message, that if believed and received will by It's own Power bear It's own fruit in my spirit, soul and body.

Turning to Mr. Dawkins, his posts and hopefully he is reading this exchange between us, will come to realize what we understand about the "two kingdoms" and why prayers like I posted have relevance to today's postmodern man and his thinking that seems to be gripping his mind and heart?

I ask you Bobby, what BEST LIFE NOW could an Atheist be living or imagine living without the Holy Ghost interpreting everything?

By the very definition of an atheist: one who believes that there is no deity; he is living by FAITH.

Faith in what or who will determine the outcome of his conversation in this life.

Joel Osteen is living by FAITH too.

It does not yet appear to Whom he is living for? Is he living for us, people, reigning like King Saul? Or is he living for God, Jesus and His Body, reigning like King David?

One thing clear about Mr. Dawkins, he is not living for God.

One thing clear about Mr. Osteen, it is not clear who is living for, God or himself, because of all the wonderful things God does because of what he does for God?

The effect of our life lived is based on the cause of our Life.

If we don't have a God, the effect is clear.

If we do have a God, sometimes the effect is not clear.

It does appear that the effect is becoming clear by virtue of this blog.

So, sorry for posting the prayer and if by posting it, it offends you, again, forgive me.

michael

Bob said...

Michael,
Oh it's fine, and I indeed do welcome your comments. I just thought it didn't really fit the context and it was pretty long. I was just suggesting that you could put together your own blog because you have a lot to say...I was in no way upset and don't think you "overstepped your bounds" I do welcome your comments Michael.

natamllc said...

well thanks Bob

Let my brevity be shorter then, maybe brief, need I say more?

Richard Dawkins said...

Your reason for being does not require an overarching, supernatural deity, if metaphysics shapes your justification of life, and existence. Having a theological handbook is no better, or more substantiable, than accepting a political polemic like
Das Kapital, as a supreme basis for formulation of opinion regarding current, or historical events.

The most essential starting-point for attaining understanding is a realisation of the complexities of life per se, and an acknowledgement that no ancient texts can begin to explain or interpret what has occured and is occuring routinely without fallacious perceptions, both contextually, and specifically.

natamllc said...

Mr. Dawkins,

persuaded you posted because of my response, I will add, hopefully with brevity and brief, though I doubt that,

quoting you first:

" Your reason for being does not require an overarching, supernatural deity, if metaphysics shapes your justification of life, and existence. Having a theological handbook is no better, or more substantiable, than accepting a political polemic like
Das Kapital, as a supreme basis for formulation of opinion regarding current, or historical events. "

I accept what God has done to me. It is supernatural and not metaphysical. I understand it was His Sovereignty, His Will that brought me out of darkness and into Light. I am at "peace" with Him.

It is three Deities, not the big bang that causes things to come out the way they do.

Quoting an Ancient writer:

Psa 50:22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.
Psa 50:23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I show the salvation of God.

The polemic here is stated quite clearly wouldn't you come along and agree?

Well having gone to your blog Mr. Dawkins and read some of the things others are saying, it simply reduces us all to being of the human race clearly, your messages, wouldn't you come along some more and agree?

With hopefully some brevity I am waiting for your next series of brillant thoughts, indeed; and perhaps you will understand, I sincerely say that, you do have a brillance about your thought!

natamllc

Bob said...

Mr.Dawkins,
You stated:
"The most essential starting-point for attaining understanding is a realisation of the complexities of life per se, and an acknowledgement that no ancient texts can begin to explain or interpret what has occured and is occuring routinely without fallacious perceptions, both contextually, and specifically."

This is what I have been saying is wrong with your statements all along. You from the outset rule out the Bible in an a-priori sense. In this instance you seem to say that no ancient text (Bible) can possibly account for the complexities we now see in life. Really?

I think quite the opposite, God's revelation of Himself in the Bible is the only way in which we can account for the complexeties we see. For instance take the fact that we are even talking about this subject, we take for granted several things:

1)That our reasoning faculties work in a sensible fashion. Also there are basic laws that govern right inferences from wrong (laws of logic). For example there are no married bachelors.

2)We can have a knowledge of the world around us and ourselves.

3)Communication of ideas to other rationale beings is possible.

These are only a few examples of the many things we all take for granted when we engage in dialogue. Unfortunatly, I dont think an atheistic worldview can account for any of these complexities as reliable. Take the first, that man is rational and we can tell a true argument from a false by the laws of logic. The atheist needs to give an answer as to where the laws of logic came from and how the laws of logic are universal and binding. How can the laws of logic be universal in an atheist worldview? I don't think they can be.

But when we turn to the Bible we see God has created man in His own image and on that basis I would say that the laws of logic reflect the thinking of God. Because the laws of logic are thus based upon the existance of God they are then universal and binding upon all men who are made in God's image. I could go on into the areas of epistemology, but my point is that atheism can not give a rational account of any universal because it begins with autonomous man.

I as a Christian start with God and His word. So I say quite the opposite, the Bible and the Christian God alone are able to account for the complexeties we see. I mean just a fundamental issue of morals is unable to be presented from a purely atheistic standpoint...yet the atheist (you) want to say that the Bible is unable to account for the complexeties we see?

Bob said...

Oh Michael,
It's cool to comment as much as you want. I really do welcome what you have to say don't feel wierded out or anything, I was just suggesting you could make your own page because you do have a lot to say...sorry if in any way I made you feel unwelcome here.